Hello Crispy, thank you for taking the time…
Now, I’ve a single question, but a number of assertions to get to it.
First, lets assume I believe Jesus existed.
Even Hitches, at the inaugural Festive of Dangerous Ideas commencement in 2008, (if I recall, I can get you the media, it’s on the Codex), said there was reason to suspect Jesus was probably real (a mad Jewish preacher, wandering the desert, but existed). The bible is clumsy in lies that wouldn’t be needed EXCEPT to fit a real person into the fake role of messiah. If Jesus had been fake, for example, just have him from Bethlehem. But since he was real, and from Nazareth, a whole fiction has to be invented to fit the square peg into the round hole of a Messiah born in Bethlehem. The bible authors do just that.
But whether you believe he was or not, lets posit that I think he was a real human being.
Further, lets posit that I think he was not divine, never claimed to be divine, that and that claims of his divinity were later added by emperor Constantine as one of hundreds of modifications made to the religion (like moving the cite of Clavery, Changing the Sabbath, rewriting the 10 commandments, and so on).
I believe that the bible is obviously a fairy tail, but like any fairy tail, maybe has a few good points (and like many fairy tails, some bad ones). I reject the old testament as the worst book ever written, and the new testament as a political document taking rather banal events around a moderately successful Jewish preacher and turning it into a bunch of magical mumbo jumbo.
I none the less think Jesus said some awesome things. I don’t agree with everything he said (indeed, I don’t agree with everything ANYONE says…), but most of what he said, I think is awesome.
I tend to believe that if one lives by the principals Jesus laid out, one makes the world a better place. This includes loving they neighbor as thyself, the treatment of the poor as I would treat a king, and always pray in private.
We’ll add I object to the imposition of these values on anyone by force is counter to to these values, and for every passage (about three) where Jesus would appear to condone violence, I’d point to 100 where he doesn’t and say “look, it’s an old book written by illiterate fishermen, I think it’s likely there are a couple errors… The body of what Jesus was reported to have said speaks for itself”.
We’ll add, lastly, that I think any oppression of homosexuals is ant-jesus, and that his overall teachings would be clear on this. I believe he was clear in being AGAINST there even being a church (And this is a large part of the argument of the reformation, so this isn’t an obscure belief, especially amongst orthodox), I think the Catholic Church is an instrument of supreme suffering and destruction, and nearly every other theistic church is just a close second. Certainly almost none of them follow him. AT ALL.
I think anyone who believes Jesus was divine, that he was resurrected, or any of that, should get their head examined. I therefore do not pray to him.
Now… If you find these unreasonable positions, that’s fine. I don’t need you to agree with them. But…
Lets assume these were my beliefs…
What label (honestly, no sarcasm, please), a word or two, Could I use, to describe this position to you, in just a word or two, which would convey this? Is there a title for this position, and if not could you come up with one that I could give to you (one that I’d say–yes, that acuratly reflects my beliefs), so that at the start of a conversation I could self identify in a way that you could understand?
What could I identify as that would, roughly, convey these positions?